Elaborating on hangman

Kill them, that’ll teach them a lesson… not one that they can apply to a life-type situation, but a lesson nonetheless.

I jest, obviously I’m against killing anyone, for pretty much any reason, and it is one of the things that I’m most proud of in my country that we do not observe such a barbaric and pointless ritual sacrifice to voters.

However, we do have our own law dilemma – how long can we hold someone without charging them?

Currently we have the 28 day limit in which to hold someone before charging them with a crime, but some politicians wish to raise that to 42 days, because, well… they haven’t really given a convincing argument why we need that yet, but stay tuned, they might conjure something up.

So why do they need to extend what is already one of the longest durations for detention without charge in the world? – In the US it’s 2 days!.. but then again, you’ve got Guantanamo Bay, right? – Apparently, it will make us safer.

That’s right, safer by 14 days. At last someone has developed a reliable scale for rating safety, The Day Scale.

Juggling with plastic knives rather than steel ones carries a 20 day safety rating, perhaps the government would like to consider that instead?

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42 thoughts on “Elaborating on hangman

  1. hmmmmmmm, not a big fan of the death penalty, tho for some ppl it is a better option.
    I am not a big fan of detention with out cause laws, but they do serve a purpose.
    What pisses me off the most is the lack of a detention for being a f**ktard or jerk laws. That would be a vote winner.

  2. I’m on the fence about the death penalty. On the one hand, there are those like Charles Manson who used the penal system to their advantage and are more dangerous alive because nothing phases them.

    Then there is the way we execute people…having studied such things out of my morbid curiosity, I’ve decided that hanging really is a humane way to kill someone. Electricity and Lethal Injection less so.

    Then there’s the chemical castration thing. That just doesn’t make *sense*–if you’re planning to permanently castrate someone, don’t ponce around about it! GAWD. H’m. Weapons of Mass Distraction, I think.

  3. From my brief forays into the future, I can tell you that the anti-jerk laws arrive in about 2112, just after the celebrity tax. Good times, good times.

  4. My biggest problem in all such issues is that I don’t know what is best, but neither does anyone who is in charge of making the decisions. My guess is no better than theirs.

  5. i suppose it really depends on whether you think reform is possible once someone has strayed that far, or maybe life in prison is more tortuous than death.

  6. “I’m on the fence about the death penalty”

    How about we just half-kill them? Leave them dead from the waist down?

    We were big fans of hanging around these parts… up until fairly recently anyway.

  7. That’s a pretty subjective statement, considering that ‘wrong’ is one of those vague words that changes in definition from individual to individual.

    Also, nothing really ‘needs’ discussion–but that doesn’t mean it *shouldn’t* be discussed. Free discourse is the best way to solve disputes, don’t you think? It certainly prevents violence, does communication.

  8. According to one study, though, communication can solve less than we think. I’m not sure I believe that, though. Personally, I think the people in that study may have been either really stupid or really, stubborn, or some combination of the two. Or maybe I’m the stubborn one. I guess it doesn’t really matter.

  9. I’m kind of on the fence about the death penalty, too. I don’t *think* we practice it where I live, but I’m not entirely sure. It could be that it’s legal, but judges just never give the sentence. I doubt it, though.

    I don’t think that anyone really has the right to decide whether anyone else lives or dies. However, I think there may be instances where it’s necessary. Like for mass murderers who keep breaking out of jail and killing people. I can’t say as I can think of any instances of this in recent times (or at all, come to think of it), but in this case, I think the death penalty might be necessary. Wouldn’t it be better to kill the perpetrator, who has designated beyond a doubt (not just a reasonable doubt, mind you, but ALL doubt), that he will kill more people if he gets the chance, than to let those people die? Especially if he’s (or she, I suppose), has already proven that they are capable of getting through any boundaries we can impose between them and the general public.

  10. The death penalty is a contradiction within itself. “That bloke killed someone, lets kill him to make it even” To me, it makes little sense to keep killing people.

    This is a good time for you to bring this up, Adam, We’re studying capital punishment in R.E.
    if anyone’s interested, I can tell you why some christians are for, and some against with bible quotes an’ everything!

    Anyways, back to the death penalty thing. Did you know that most people on Death Row are poor people who have committed crimes against white people? It makes it easier to convict them and be allowed to kill them, as they can’t afford a good lawyer.
    And more people die on Death Row from natural causes than actually being executed. it takes an average of 10 years for them to go through all the appeals etc…

    I find it fairly fascinating, but it would be so nice to learn in it a history lesson rather than it being current affairs..

  11. I agree! I think getting killed by lethal injection would be a truly horrible way to die. Actually, I think being sentenced to death in any form would be a horrible way to die. But I suppose there could be some people, like Tia said, who might find being executed preferable to spending the rest of their lives in prison. I really feel that that should be the choice of the person to be killed. It’s not like it really has any direct importance to anyone but them as to whether it’s a “humane” way to die.

    I’ve decided that if I were going to be executed, I’d want to be taken out by a firing squad. Because then I could face them down, “inscrutable to the last,” Walter Mitty-style.

  12. I’d like to think so, but I’m not sure anyone who would be able to do “death-penalty worthy” crimes has a sense of reality in any way similar to my own. they might not be able to see an alternative to crime, or any reason why it might be immoral.

  13. I don’t agree with that comment. Whilst I’m very pleased to live in a country that doesn’t have any crimes punishable by death (it’s almost ten years since the last capital crimes in the UK had their sentences changed, although admittedly they were “Treason” and “Piracy with violence”, and murder hasn’t carried it for over forty years), I think it’s important for the discussion to keep going, if only to make sure that it’s not just the people who want the punishment brought back that are thinking about it.

  14. I feel strongly about punishment, actually, but it’s the figuring out who is guilty that is hard. I have a friend who was wrongfully accused and convicted of rape, and even he’s starting to believe the charge is true because of the fact that everyone now believes a woman’s word over a man’s, in these situations. It’s horrible. His life is basically ruined because this girl decided to be spiteful.

    On the other hand, you have people that prey on the innocent and seduce them and coerce them, and they get off scot-free (I’m speaking from experience here). So it’s a tough call because finding out guilt is still so difficult because justice is so…so unjust, still.

  15. I think it is valid to think that some things in life are right or wrong. I could go into all the arguments about this, but no one has the time for that!
    Discussion about almost all issues is important, but state sanctioned murder is wrong and if you think otherwise, you are wrong.
    I am eternally greatful that I don’t live in a country that has the death penalty and I would defend that with my own life.
    I think the point raised by Maddie is a very good place to start the discussion about why the death penalty is wrong.
    No one is infallible, so who can be the competent judge on the legal murder of another?

  16. I think it is valid to think that some things in life are right or wrong.

    >>Of course it is, but you’re not just doing that; you’re blithely passing sweeping judgement on anyone who disagrees with you, which was my point.

    I could go into all the arguments about this, but no one has the time for that!

    >>Actually, since you’ve been so…well, antagonistic…I would like to know what makes you think you’re so right.

    Discussion about almost all issues is important, but state sanctioned murder is wrong and if you think otherwise, you are wrong.

    >>There’s that judgemental, aggressive tone again. Tone it down unless you want to start a flame war.

    I am eternally greatful that I don’t live in a country that has the death penalty and I would defend that with my own life.

    >>How ironic.

    I think the point raised by Maddie is a very good place to start the discussion about why the death penalty is wrong.

    >>It’s not a discussion if no one is allowed to disagree.

    No one is infallible, so who can be the competent judge on the legal murder of another?

    >>You’re right, no one is infallible–that does include people who think that the death penalty is wrong. Just because you don’t support it doesn’t mean you’re infallibly right, either.

    I’m not even arguing about the death penalty, at this point; it’s your ‘I think this and if you don’t think so too you’re WRONG’ attitude that is irking me.

  17. Has anyone ever heard of the manga seires Death Note? that raises some interesting questions about killing people who’ve committed crimes..

    The death penalty can be wrong, and it can be right. it’s one of those things that people will always find something to argue over when talking about it. I’m sorta against it myself, not because it’s killing people, but because it’s unfairly done, as I’ve said.
    Anyone heard of “the Angel Of Death Row?” a woman who wrote the book “Dead man Walking” which was later turned into a film..she raises some very good points against capital punishment, and even though she is against killing due to her religion, most of her arguements against it are just political and, really, common sense.

    Killing a person is a whole different matter, really. killing someone because they killed someone is a contradiction of itself, but killing someone in the first place..well..it’s right, and it’s wrong. more wrong than right i will admit, but on some occasions, it’s hard to see that entirely.

    Hmm. I’m beginning to see why I am one of the youngest people here..you’re all grown up and clever, you have knowledge to back you up with things like this. Me, I only know what I’ve learnt so far, and all I really have to back me up is my opinion. and, when it’s a debate or whatever that i feel strongly about, i probably have some anger to help as well ;)

  18. Eh, it’s okay, Maddie, I’m not that much older than you. ;)

    I’m sorta against it myself, not because it’s killing people, but because it’s unfairly done, as I’ve said.

    I agree with this on so many levels, and not just in the example of the death penalty. I think there a LOT of ideas out there for political reforms and such that would be absolutely lovely–if they could be carried out properly. It’s kind of like the current debate about whether or not to sanction public same-sex-only schools (and the racially segregated schools of the past, as well). Because if people REALLY wanted that sort of atmosphere, then, yes, they should be able to have it. But honestly, in practice could that ever work?

  19. Yay! I’m not alone in my fairly young-ness.

    Exactly my point, Easca.

    That’s an interesting view actually…personally, i tend not to get too involved in political arguements, mainly because i either don’t understand, or just consider politicians to be stupid.;)

    Honestly, though, I don’t know…maybe?

  20. Easca, you are, of course, completely right.

    I sometimes forget that my grand sweeping statements are only amusing to those who have known me for a VERY long time.

    Discussion is always useful in highlighting errors as well as confirming truths.

    I was being rather glib but I certainly did not intend to be antagonistic. And I really don’t want to start a ‘flame war’, whatever that is.

    Please accept my humble apology and refer to my earlier point, that everyone is fallible :)

  21. Yeah, L is awesome. MY mate is dressing up as him for a party next week. I’m going as Grace from El Goonish Shive(a webcomic)

    However, I’ve only read the first book. I’m waiting to be lent the second.

    it still does raise some pretty interesting questions.

  22. I knew that this issue would be a bit contentious… and it now leads the ‘most words per comment’ category.

    I’m going to leave you with one last thought:

    The most popular drink for last meals on US death row? Dr Pepper…

    …it’s just a shame they can’t use that in an advertising campaign.

  23. later it gets into the reaction of the common people a bit, riots and cults, good stuff.
    I’d like to see that L cosplaying, a friend of mine did a really good Mello cosplay.
    manga and anime are a hobby of mine…

  24. Politicians are quite stupid. My personal least-favorite political nonsense is that idea the economy will be improved by raising taxes. HAS NO ONE EVER HEARD OF DEADWEIGHT LOSS?!

    In general, I’m with you on avoiding political discussions when I really don’t know what I’m talking about. There are some issues that I just tend to avoid completely. But then there are the ones that I actually know something about, and those are another matter entirely…

  25. I just read the second one, which ends on a real cliff hanger!

    Eh, it’s less of a cosplay and more just a fancy dress party, me and him are the only ones going as manga/webcomic characters. but there ya go.
    should be awesome anyways

  26. When I do tend to know stuff about something to do with politics, i soon discover I don’t know enough and get everything wrong.

    In school we had to make up an idea for a website that would tell people about political parties, manifestos etc. in England. My website address? http://www.if-you‘re-dumb-do-politics.org

  27. See, at least you have the common sense and dignity to admit that you’re wrong. One of my biggest pet peeves is idiots who complain, have no idea what they’re talking about, and still won’t shut up once you tell them the way things really are. I know one person who is CONVINCED that it’s the president’s fault that students need to pay $5 for equipment for band, and won’t listen when you tell him that, in fact, education is handled on a local level, and that funding issue is probably better addressed to the principle of the school, and not the president. That kid also doesn’t believe in the Holocaust, interestingly enough.

    That URL is brilliant, by the way. :)

  28. Ah yes, that often happens to me. I’ll start moaning, then someone will set me straight and i’ll get embarrassed, but i tend to accept that i am wrong.

    and say that whoever’s fault it is, they’re stupid.

    But that’s how i am! ;)

    And thankyou. i don’t think my teacher’s seen it yet. she already told me off for writing a fantastic song for our “house” at school, Lowbury:
    “Lowbury is for losers” I am very proud of it, but she made me write a more positive one to enter in the actual house song competition. Still, “lowbury is for Losers” was enjoyed by everyone in my form, mainly because we are, in fact, all losers. ;)

  29. Bum, that was supposed to be replying to Easca’s comment all the way up there^ but it just went to the bottom instead…

  30. Ha, my school is full of losers, too. The only difference is that if someone here submitted a song like that, our teachers would probably laugh and hope it won. :)

  31. Well, all my form wanted to submit it. but i had to re-write it as “lowbury is for winners” and submit that instead. LAMEEEEEEEE!

  32. and what about the people you can’t teach a lesson?

    the people who will never be true functioning members of society?

    the people that are never going to stop raping/killing/stealing/etc no matter how long they spend in jail?

    should we waste our tax dollars keeping those people alive just so they exist?

    f**k that

    everyone throws away their failures without thinking about it, why shouldn’t society do the same?

    to be honest it’s too bad we don’t give the death penalty to more people and carry it out with more efficiency. Animal abusers, child predators, etc should all fry.

    Think about it in the long-run. The more useless individuals we get rid of, the less overpopulated we are. We have to think more for the environment than for keeping the species alive – we can’t even sustain the near-7-billion on the planet we already have.

    It’s not like we apply the death penalty to teenagers who shoplift a stick of gum from a Tiger Mart. Anyone who gets the death penalty has such psychological impairments that they can never function in society. There’s no way we can “reach” them.

    Of course, then there’s the argument that hey, what if we convict the wrong guy? It’s rare, but it happens. Maybe we should bring Sharia law over here. That way we can truly teach them a lesson!

  33. Coming in very late on this (just found the site – think it is brilliant).

    One to consider – here in Australia a 60 odd year old guy was just convicted for murdering his 30 year old girlfriend.

    Problem: he was actually given the death penalty 40 years ago for murdering his girlfriend. But then we did away with the death penalty, his sentence was commuted to life, and, of course, life never really means life, except of course for his 30 year old girlfriend who he has robbed of all her potential.

    I agree that the death penalty has problems, but ONLY because of the risk of accidentally killing the wrong person. There are crimes that are completely irredeemable; and euthanasing the perpetrators, provided you are 100 per cent sure that you have the correct perpetrator, is entirely reasonable.

    If we are not going to apply it (and I don’t think we should for the reason above), then LIFE must mean LIFE. It is entirely unreasonable that someone else should lose their life because we have some misguided sense of redemption.

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