July 1st, 2008
Thicker than blood
There are two types of people… those that think animatronics are better than CGI, and those that are wrong.
There’s something about having several people stuffed into a latex alien that makes it more believable. Take Jabba the Hutt – an intimidating monster reduced to a large slug by computerised animation.
There’s apparently a difference between real fakery and fake fakery.
I’ll leave you with a video of perhaps the most talented make-up and effects artist – Rick Baker. The man is a genius and I defy you to find a a computer generated primate as realistic and believable as this:
Right I’m off to go and watch the Making of Labyrinth documentary.
justine on 
This post wins on many many levels: I present an Internet to you.
My wife did a short horror film when she was in highschool. They shot it in black & white, and used Hershey Syrup for the blood. The bottle was somewhere in every shot. : )
I agree that animatronics beat CGI hands-down 99% of the time. Good animatronics with a smidge of CG to round off some tiny rough edges (like lips for talking) is tops.
Labyrinth rocks (Bowie’s erm… unit-ards notwithstanding)
That’s a nice little easter egg in the film… I like it. Although i cannot say that I know much aboiut hershey’s syrup. It’s not something we generally have here, but I’m assuming it’s analogous with all chocolate syrups.
*goes and has a look* I see they do stawberry too, perhaps that would be a useful substitute when using colour film.
Actually, I have no idea what fakery goes on for colour film…. I must find that out too.
As for Bowie, bulging in his lycra… dance magic dance…
I know for photography a corn flour and food-dye mixture is often used, and you can buy animal blood. Although that’s a little messy, I suppose.
I have discovered that milk with red food dye looks stunningly good, but also stains the skin for a while. I had pink hands for about a week.
Ahh, Bowie. I have a great love for that man.
Karo syrup, flour, and red and blue food coloring is a good, edible stage blood. Change the mixture for runny or clumpy. Hershey is the United Statesian word for chocolate, basically. (They’re the biggest choco company in N. America and basically the second oldest)
See, I used to think this way, but now I think CGI is potentially better if it’s done properly, but nobody’s really doing it properly. They work so hard on textures and little nuances and totally miss the total picture, they end up with a video game cutscene pretending to be a feature film. From a production stand-point though doing effects on set is ten times easier to deal with and pay for even if the effects are staggeringly expensive, because good CGI is inordinately labor-intensive and so is even more ridiculously expensive (and still not that good.)
I think Peter jackson had a fair stab at it for LOTR and to a much lesser extent his Kong remake, but I still think that the acting is comprimised when talking to a stick with a paper playte attached to it.
i think you have refined the point that I was trying to get at. that whilst more people have access to the CGI techniques a staggering few can actually pull it off, as opposed to the animatronic set up where initially it is more difficult, but even on low budgets can be quite something to watch.
I don’t have this argument that often these days (except occasionally with myself), mostly because if someone claims that CGI is better I show them ‘American Werewolf in London’ (also Mr Baker) and ask them to find a CGI alternative that pulls it off.
Which reminds me, I’m currently waiting on the remake of Wolfman, starring Benicio Del Toro, and also featuring Rick Baker’s work:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20185191,00.html
My only reservation is that Joe Johnston is at the helm, and I still haven’t forgiven him for the horror that was Jurassic Park 3… now there’s a couple of hours I’ll never get back.
My first impression after seeing Jabba in the New Hope update was…. gee, Jabba got smaller and less slimy. He was just too smooth. Too small. And the thing is, I’ve seen that scene where he talks to Han at the port before because it was in the comic book adaption (and in it, Jabba was a big fat man). You’re right. Jabba was better off as a puppet.
It did look a little like they had polished him so much that they had worn him down to a sluggy core.
So shiny, so small.
Jabba was better off… the whole series was better off with out the new releases and ep 1-3.
However, I do think that with the developments of CGI its getting better and better, now that isn’t to say it will ever replace animatronics in the hearts of us the grew up with it. I remember watching labrynth and starwars as a little kid and thinking how awesome that would be, its partly why I got into theater, there’s just something about rigging that stuff up that warms the depths of my heart. But CGI does have its place, its wonderful for finishing touches in animatronic films, childrens movies, and video games(Though I do agree, some of those cut scenes need to realize thats all they are, in fact, a 2-minute cut scene to add to the story, not the whole game itself)
but then I got the best of both worlds when I was growing up, CGI was just starting up and Animatronics was still going strong when I was watching.
Or that Final Fantasy film… that was just one long cutscene…
I suppose a large part of my fondness comes not from the results, but from the concept. I too wanted to be an FX artist – moulding latex, stitching hair, rigging up servos – it’s a bit more like being a god, crafting life with your own hands… as opposed to computers which, despite their constant need for human reassurance, pretty much do the work themselves.
Do you mind me asking, but what do you do in the theatre?
A little of everything. I’ve mostly been doing rigging, hanging backdrops and signs and curtains and lights and stuff. Its actually been a while, I was doing it while i was going to school for some extra cash, but when I got my full time job i don’t really have time for it anymore. I started in high school as a carpenter, then worked my way up to lighting and electrical work, and in college my instructer basically said, “Dan, you’re my rigger now” taught me quite a bit and let me loose.
I don’t know if any of you have heard of “Urinetown” its a musical about water shortage, its really funny, but our designer and director decided to go with a monopoly theme, so we build a HUGE monopoly boarder and hung it around the proscenium. this thing weighed a good 200lbs… but by god we did it. Then we had a HUGE 500lb sign we had to hang from the batons. and in the middle of it all… A giant monopoly house that had secret doors and it spun in place. It was a huge project, it actually got nominated to be taken to some college competition, but our tech director was having a baby and couldn’t take it on the road.
So, I do a lot in theater. When you’re in school, you do everything, when you join the union, you do one set thing, i think thats why i never joined the union to work as a technician, I had to much fun doing different things.
The monopoly set sounds fantastic – hard work but worth it. I’ll look up ‘Urinetown’ later on.
I’m with you – diversity, especially in employment, is far more preferable to specialisation.
I bet you have a utility belt.
I want a utility belt. I want to *need* a utility belt.
It’s a shame you didn’t get to tour your set… but did any pictures make it online?
Im sure there are some from some of the cast and crew, I’ll check around, it was a really amazing set up, I do have a tool belt, and hey, as long as you have a house that needs to be maintained, you need a tool belt. some guys also feel the need to own a miter saw, circular saw, jig saw, chain saw, hand saw, hack saw….. wow, we have a lot of saws….. and yet, they all come in handy….
you can always use the typical guy excuse, I need this because is broken and only this tool can fix it.
I’ve heard my dad use that line many times and just had to look at him an ask, you mean you can’t fix the door jam with your hand saw, you really need to get a band saw? he never used the band saw for the door jam….
For utility belt, see;
http://flickr.com/photos/brokentoyshop/2306606045/in/set-72157604196662042/
They are over-rated.
I’d much prefer to have some one else wear the darn thing.
That is a very VERY real monkey. With checked sleeves sticking out of his arms. Still, very excellent.
Animatronics might be all real and cheap and old school, but when the T1000 reconstitutes itself in the steelworks and stands up - I was scared. I literally could not believe my eyes, even though I watch that movie over and over.
Oh, and hi Adam - good to be back with internet ON! May I say that Flowfield has improved mightily in my absence?
I may?
Thank you!
Flowfield has improved mightily in my absence.
Hey, franzy, welcome back!
We thought we would have a bit of a spring clean, make the place nice for when you came back.
The monkey freaked me out a little. If it wasn’t for the checked sleeves, or the fact that the chimp seems to be remarkably good at taking direction (far better than many human actors) I’d be suspicious that this wasn’t just your regular type of primate.
As for the T-1000, I too remember being stunned by it, and learning the word ‘morph’ in a completely context… however, I stand by my claim. I mean, how cool would it have been to achieve the same results using old-school fx? I know, probably impossible… but still, I can hope.
I love how for every Amiga rendered morphy gooey shot in the movie they have fast-paced close-ups of a guy wrapped in aluminum foil.
fakes are good as long as you believe them.
once you stop believing a fake, it has no value.
but some fakes are really mockeries.
a good mockery has socially redeeming value.
That’s not a real chimp? You’re sure?
Get a chimp, insert “sleeves” up into his arm hair. Get him to do some stuff. Record “directions” afterward. : )
Actually though, his movements are just the tiniest bit too tight.
I did take some convincing, but it all checks out – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087365/
It can be the only reason for a film starring Christopher Lambert getting oscar nominations.
Hahaha, okay, that I’ll believe. I’d love to know how it works on the inside.
Spoken like a true biologist.
something about a big rubber puppet just makes it easier to suspend your disbelief.
I think it’s the sense of presence, and the fact that people can actually look them in the eyes. Like the camera can record the fact that they’re actually displacing air.
I loved Final Fantasy.
I loved Ice Age.
I love most CGI feature films that are pretty decent.
Some thing about it all being not at all real makes it so much better.
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