Invade we trust
The one thing the US has always been good at is invading. Not the crass military excursions made recently popular, but in terms of exporting its ideas and icons, and wedging itself comfortably into other culture.
It’s not all been for the worse either… The spelling thing annoys me, but I’d happily put up with a few misjudged ‘z’s and missing ‘u’s for the chance to listen to jazz and rock and roll, or to watch an episode of Lost.
I tolerate McDonald’s for the sake of Warhols and Pollocks and Vonneguts and Keseys.
But that’s just me, in my tiny part of the UK… I’d be interested to know how other people in other countries see this, as an invasion or a liberation.
As for my Transatlantic friends, I wonder too if they have pride or shame in their most successful export – their culture.
Mostly shame. There’s nothing worse than spending 3 large to get to London, and all my friends want to eat at McDonald’s…….
Because British takeaway cuisine is any better?
Most British school children spend the first five years of their education concentrating on building an immunity to the various types of UK fastfoods.
We do like nice food… but when in a strange city and searching for food, you’re really playing roulette with your stomach at stake.
Still, it is a long way to come for a a Big Mac.
I mean, UK has health and safety standards… why not go to a pub and get the old standby, fish and chips? At least then you could say you went to a pub, rather than spending all that energy just to see youngsters from ANOTHER country degraded. Although it’s worth going to McDonald’s in Germany since they sell beer.
Most of our culture sucks. McDonald’s in particular sucks. I like Wendy’s. Or Whataburger. Whataburger is the best.
That’s the first time I have encountered ‘Whataburger’…
The naming convention is brilliant… ‘justaburger for me please’.
Two words: Infinite Jest.
Good call.
Just heard that David Foster Wallace, the author took himself out of the equation this weekend. A shame really.
Another MacArthur genius fails to live.
Ack! Now that is a sad, sad loss. So many great books, unwritten.
It’s never a good thing…
I read a pretty interesting article (which I’ve lost) about how he straddled two generations without being particularly taken with either. His writing is pretty old-school, dense and detailed but his outlook is far more cynical than some of his contemporaries… It’s usually these sort of writers that go down that road, either that or they tend to become hermits.
We call it “Waterburger” around here, cause that’s what it does to your bowels…
i always wonder which part of american culture other countries see, because in the U.S. i feel that every part of the country has its own culture and a mix of other countries from all of the immigrants. Or how about native american casino culture? I also would leave mcdonalds out of it, the small local burger joints that are family owned since the 30’s can be, but not that corporate crap.
There seems to be, to me as an outsider, a rift in the US identity… on one hand there’s this very pure pioneer spirit, the little guy holding his own… and on the other hand there is the absolute opposite; the vast corporations, a bizarre political system run very much on money and promises.
The difference between the local burger chains and the international ones… it’s similar to what we see of your politics.
Well it is nice to live in a country that has a cultural history of freedom at any cost. However i have a feeling that that culture is going to fall to the greedy power hungry few who call themselves politicians. Our people are not doing what needs doing in order to keep the government in check and its just growing out of control. One day that government will turn on its people in a very dramatic way and we will no longer stand for freedom. The world thinks we are big and nasty now? Wait till that day comes or better yet when China finishes buying us out and we become their dogs. The world had better learn to fend for themselves in a big hurry cause that day isn’t far off.
But i have to say even though we are currently being a pain in the buttocks to quite a few nations out there we STILL haven’t done as much damage or dramatic change to entire regions like Great Britain did in its empire days. In fact the entire continent of Africa was changed for good by their actions. The middle east as well has its current borders and all the problems stemming from them because the brits thought they knew best. So all in all we are still young in our influence on the world compared to that.
Oh, there’s time yet (just about).
And as a note of British pride, we didn’t just screw up Africa and the Middle East… we did it to large chunks of India too.
It’s just sad that the US politicians didn’t learn the same lessons from our actions – rather they have taken the British blueprints for medling and ruling and have applied them to virtually every nation they come into contact with.
Actually isn’t America just a byproduct of british meddling anyway? : )
Mostly shame. But I am pretty proud of our music. Just not the pop music. If America was a person pop music alone would earn her a place in hell.
I thought Europe and Britian invent pop music with the Beatles and Abba?
But the difference is that The Beatles were good.
mostly shame, because it seems to worm it’s way in through negative means, our culture became popular in japan as a result of the bombings at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
but some foreign musicians have taken American influence and used it to create a lot of wonderful songs.
Quick tangent on atrocities- The atomic bomb appears to have deeply affected Japanese culture (duh) on even subtle levels. Without it there would certainly be no Godzilla- this is the most obvious example, but having the horrors of technological advancement visited upon them resulted in a far greater degree of technophobia (strange for a culture that is generally viewed as cutting edge). Would we still have Ringu, Akira, Pulse, etc?
As for how I feel about my Americanship, I think of it like the internet or any other tool thats been given us- ‘They’ve set it up so we can do this amazing thing? Awesome! … wait, they’re using it for WHAT?!’
We are as a whole a horrible, greedy, self-centered culture desperately trying to fill personal voids with consumerism and ignorance and beating those same principles into the rest of the world. Except when we’re being brilliant and helping to justify the continuation of the human species.
Then again, with a few tweaks that’s just the human race as a whole.
Nice, the first tangent of the week, and a rather interesting one at that. To be the only nation on Earth to have been nuked is an odd situation. then again, to be the only nation on Earth that has nuked another country is also an interesting situation.
“Without it there would certainly be no Godzilla”
Yeah, the radiocative fallout does tend to create angry megalizards.
“Then again, with a few tweaks that’s just the human race as a whole”
Very true… really, when you think about it the differences in all cultures are arbitrary – humans, no matter where they come from are, at best, amazing and at worst, horrible. I suppose all culture is a reflection of that.
Not pride, not shame, but more like disgust. I can go to a random third tier city in China and find a KFC, or McDonald’s. In Shanghai there is a Starbuck’s on nearly every corner. Now 1.3 billion Chinese think that America is all about KFC and Starbuck’s.
I blame that Columbus wanker (for so much), but then I’m totally unqualified to answer because until the age of 20 I read mostly British authors, watched British comedy and Japanese drama, listened primarily to Europop, then the frikkin’ Internet came along and turned my mind to mush.
I am seriously concerned about that American flag stuck up in the moon, though. Unless the space beings really like Harrison Ford, we’re in for it.
Columbus certainly has set up a tradition of geographical knowledge in these united states
I see no reason why they wouldn’t really like Harrison Ford.
I wonder how many countries secretly declare themselves the 51st state? I know Australia did for a decade under of last PM. And we still have a wide spread of American culture here because it’s that or British culture and you guys make too much smart stuff to sell down here (see! We are 51st!).
Sorry, Aus would have to be 52, since Puerto Rico is currently ::this:: close to becoming a state anyway. (IE, they don’t pay US taxes, but they get US regulation, health, telephones, etc.)
Most people seem to be ashamed… I for one am not ashamed of my country… now I am deeply ashamed and disappointed in our government. There is quite a lot the govt has done recently to earn my distrust. But the united states, the people, I am proud of. There are quite a few who deserve a sound beating, and I’m not so glad that when people think, USA they think McDonalds or WalMart, but I am proud of our flag, our Ideals, what america was founded on, and what we still stand for, even if the govt seems to be screwing it all to hell. I’m proud that we can still have our own opinion. so many countries you can’t state anything that is not blind obedience to the leader. So I have a mixed feeling for our great country. But when you’re thinking of your home, there’s just too much feeling for someone to nail down one emotion, that is, unless, you’re blindly following.
“what america was founded on” from my undestanding (informed by imported sitcoms) wasn’t the US founded on Turkey… or is that Thanksgiving?
The important thing to remember is that politics and government are temporary veneers and that the character of the people will outlast any regeime.
Patriotism is usually portrayed as (in your case) Redneck NRA members or (in our case) Skinhead BNP members… the truth is that true patriotism is wanting your country to be it’s best, and that can’t be bad.
One thing I fail to understand about our former colonials is their wanton disregard for our good old British u’s.
Their ruthless abandonment of u’s from words such as flavour and colour have left us with a surplus of u’s, currently stagnating in a huge landfill outside London.
If immediate action is not taken, we could find ourselves swamped with u’s in a couple of years’ time.
I suggest we start thrusting u’s into other words, like ‘what’ and ‘think’.
Whaut do you thiunk?
Excelluent Idea. The ‘u’ mountain really needs sorting out, it’s playing havok with the nearby scrabble championships.
Scraubble.
oh, flip the ‘u’ it’s just an extra letter to write
and more profits for phone companies to
squeeze out of pay-per text messages.
I think the real problem is the American surplus of Ys, Os, As, Es, etc… since “RU” is quickly replacing “are you” in the American English Lexicon.
[...] The Flowfield Unity » Archive » Invade we trust. [...]
i used to see america as the ‘good guys’
defenders of freedom, doing the right thing
even in difficult times. we were the world’s
conscience. now i’m embarrassed because
we trample of people’s rights. we’ve become
bullies instead of well-intentioned leaders.
the mcdonalds thing doesn’t bother me,
because there a the choice to eat
elsewhere. cheesecake factory, yay!!!
We’ll have to wait a little while longer since that particular treat has yet to invade us…
It does combine two of my passions, namely cheese, and cake.
I can tell about some of what we can see of US culture here in france. We know all about Mac Donald (and recently about KFC), Hollywood, MTV and Microsoft. There is also the stereotypical vision of the fat-american clinging to his guns with a cow-boy hat on his head and the cigar clenched in his mouth (blame the long running of Dallas for the cigar thing).
But all of this has nothing to do with the real influence of the US over french culture. The most frightening part is to me the growing of french imitating the US lifestyle without a second thought. And this goes as far as the institutions. I’ll take as an example the once reputed universities in France that have lost their last remnants of glory because they tried to imitate the US ones. I feel that the reason behind this is that the US have shone over the world with all their might for the last half century and that lead other country to consider their way as the best thus forgetting themselves in the process.
Well I won’t blame the US anyway. It’s not as if they were the ones following blindly. But I think they should realize that people still look up to them and they should beware of that, as it will someday earn them the ire of the world.
Well, this is my personnal view, and I’m pretty sure I missed a lot of things, but there must be some part of this to the truth, heh?
i’m glad the cigar is a memory from dallas
rather than president clinton. or maybe the
famous presidential cigar is more french than
american?
Wow, no Canadians have weighed in yet! (TLDR warning)
Here in the Great White North, we feel American culture like a kick in the head every single day. People constantly conflate our values and American values, we get mistaken for Americans when we travel abroad, and lately our national government has been trying as hard as humanly possible to crawl up the eagle’s cloaca.
In a large part, the Canadian public culture has emerged as a response to Americanism: they fight, we negotiate; they create mass media, we produce niche media; they reject British spelling and the Metric system, we embrace them. Well, the spelling thing differs from person to person. Most English teachers I’ve known will harp about “colour” but will accept “color.” The only time it’s ever been an issue was in my first-year university Comparative Politics class, where the prof insisted upon “defence”.
The cliche, which everyone in my generation has had beaten into them since grade 2, is that Canadian culture is a “mosaic”, rather than a “melting pot”. In the USA, you are expected to adopt American values at the expense of your traditional ones, but in Canada, we will accept your culture, and in fact celebrate it (so long as it doesn’t conflict with our existing laws; see the rejection of Sharia-based family law in Ontario on human rights grounds). That’s true to an extent: I don’t know about other places in the world, but in Canada, it seems that every week some expatriate/immigrant group or another is having a cultural festival (my favorite locally is the Caribbean Sunshine Festival because it’s the only time of year home-made ginger beer is so easy to access for me). Americans with “ethnic” backgrounds are fond of being hyphenated. They are “Chinese-Americans” or “Jamaican-Americans”. That happens in Canada, but less so. People are more able to just be “Canadians”, because the ethnic appending is implied and basically forgotten. People that I know that have come from the US to Canada are always surprised at how different immigrant communities are just smoothed into the landscape here.
But at the same time, there is a lot of Canadian culture that is just American bleed-over, and a lot where that’s threatened. Pop culture is the obvious one. Canadian artists, comedians, musicians, etc., are heralded and loved here in their homeland, but to make it big, they all move south. To top it off, their styles, looks, and approaches are all coloured by the American experience. Avril Lavigne may have been a pop-singer regardless, but what would her pop have sounded like if she weren’t awash in the American bubble-punk scene growing up? Mike Myers and Jim Carrey might have always become comedians, but would they have had the same crass comedy without the American influence? Or, more to the point, would their crass comedy have been as successful if they hadn’t been able to take it south? There are dozens of brilliant Canadian comedians who don’t take the Myers/Carrey route, and they will probably never see that level of success, because they aren’t willing to pretend to talk through their ass.
Politics is another important arena of American pressure. We’re constantly comparing our performance internationally, not by the world community, but by the Americans. This is a good thing in some ways (they have 10x our population and cashflow, so it makes us aspire to be something much greater than we are) but bad in others (we let ourselves slack in areas such as UN and humanitarian funding, so long as we aren’t doing as badly per capita as they are). It creates a situation where Canada has a doorway into the international forum as “American’s little buddy”, but it also pressures us to participate in unpopular international actions (the invasion of Afghanistan being one where the Canadian populace was largely opposed to armed intervention, but we played along with the Americans).
Being close neighbours with the USA gives us access to amazing scientific and technological innovations, and allows our universities and research facilities to participate in some impressive advances. But at the same time, it hampers our development: stem cell research in Canada is held back because of American opposition.
Finally, we have the general culture differences. Recently, Fred “raging asshole” Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church tried to come across the border to protest at the funeral of a Canadian who was murdered; Phelps somehow made the outrageous, obscene, and insane connection that the young man was killed because Canada allows gay marriage. Along with gay marriage, American pressure has basically prevented Canadian decriminalization of marijuana (other than medical pot allowances), despite the ample research showing that criminalizing pot does more harm than good. Canadian culture is growing increasingly non-religious. We have a strong removal of religion from politics; the church affiliation of our government officials never comes up unless it’s a huge deal, as it was when our former Prime Minister (a Catholic) defied instructions from Rome to oppose gay marriage and abortion.
Whew. So, there’s the short (ha!) version of my list of national frustrations re: American influence in Canadian culture. Hope it’s been enlightening.
tl:dr
Tho, I disagree with the legalising dope bit, agree with the pop-culture bit and love the bit about multi-culturalism in festivals.
I warned you!
Also, Canada wasn’t going to -legalize- dope. Rather, the plan was to -decriminalize- it. So, instead of sending people to jail for possession of small amounts, we could save the police, court, and lawyer time required to obtain a conviction, and just hand out a ticket instead. Cost to the taxpayer reduces from -substantial- (court time, police wages, witness fees, incarceration costs) to virtually nil (policing cost offset by the value of the ticket).
Large amounts would still be criminal, and distribution would still be a crime.
hey, did canadians invent avril or was that purely american?
We spawned her. I have no idea what her music career was like before she got a deal with an American label. She was born (as she’s fond of saying in interviews) in Napanee, Ontario.
Good show, it’s been a while since we’ve had a megacomment… and indeed, very enlightening.
I suppose being their nearest neighbour, Canada not only takes the full brunt but is frequently mistaken for the country itself.
I really need a Mexican perpective now…
…And do you think Fred Phelps parents knew what an idiot he was going to be when they gave him that middle name?
America has a very strong influence on Australian culture.
The USA has managed to invade the world mostly thru plain politics, economics and culture.
It seems that where it has failed to achieve dominance thru passive aggressive means, it has just used straight aggression.
Here in Aus we see a large amount of American culture in our own.
Most young kids listen to American music, watch American shows and buy American clothes.
Our politicians seems to be actively licking the arsehole of their American counterparts and our troops are fighting another American war.
I could harp on about the negative influences that America exerts on this nation, but that would be hypocritical of me.
I’m not sure of any western nation that didn’t gain power thru slavery, genocide or invasion.
Human nature involves massive amounts of greed, fear and xenophobia, regardless of colour or culture.
Personally, I despise the consumerism that currently holds America tight in it’s fiscal grip, I resent the obesity of the (what seems) the majority of it’s population and I fear the alarmist, dominant nature of it’s military.
I hate walking into supermarkets, lined with hundreds of pre-packaged food items, heatable in a microwave, ready in 30 secs, not a fresh vegetable or non-vacuumed sealed slice of meat in sight.
I fucking hate the ad on TV currently that tells us that putting frosting on is now the best part of making a cake. What the fuck is frosting and how the fuck do you make a cake from a cardboard box?
I am scared of the movement to ban the teaching of evolution as fact, to replace it with a “balanced” teaching of creationism and evolution. Do you want your anti-biotic to be made for the disease before or after it evolved to be resistant to almost everything?
I feel sickened when I hear that America spends more per year on golf course grass then the entire continent of Africa does on food crops.
But really, what sickens me most is that at the end of the day, I am not really ever going to do anything about it, just swear abit and get angry, and I will do that most when I have to set my Word dictionary to Aus spelling instead of US.
Our culture is fairly similar to America’s anyway, so whinging about influences is largely futile and pointless. The political differences are important, but otherwise, there is not much between the two, whether that be because we changed to be the same, or because both nations are from similar origins and are both young.
Where I feel strongest about America’s influence is in place like South America, place that are still in a messy cultural divide. It is nigh impossible to live with western ideals in a third world country.
It is something that I saw a lot of when I was in Ecuador and from talking to other travellers, it is common throughout the continent.
I’m gonna stop rambling now.
In fact, authors such as Jared Diamond would argue that it’s not even a good idea for third world countries to try and live up to western standards: we consume 32 times more energy and produce 32 times more garbage on average.
“we consume 32 times more energy and
produce 32 times more garbage on average.”
we’re #1… we’re #1… we’re #1… we’re #1…
I should’ve said “per capita”. I really need to stop commenting on these things before I wake up.
Somnographer.
Another megacomment, and inspite of been banned from the internet – consider yourself unbanned.
“I am scared of the movement to ban the teaching of evolution as fact, to replace it with a “balanced” teaching of creationism and evolution.”
I think that’s something I missed in my post, the export of religion of a political nature… not only midless, but spiteful and cunning too. I believe everyone in a democracy should have an opinion with the exception of God… he never has to live with the consequences.
Why are you such a spiteful person, Adam? How can you honestly think – let alone deceive yourself into believing – that their is not something greater than humanity and the world that men have created for themselves? Did you ever think that the concept of “Humanism” was only possible *after* the fact that Christianity had lead those teachings of kindness and fellowship?
“I believe everyone in a democracy should have an opinion with the exception of God… he never has to live with the consequences.”
When God said to Moses, “I am that I am [ ???? ??? ???? ],” it was because God could not, nor would, be qualified, quantified, conceptualized, or “captured” by the very limited and inconsistent language and thought of men.
What “consequences” are you referring to, that could possibly be so great, that they would persist if you’re idea of “democracy” [in the U.K.] where to collapse this very instant? What reasonable consequence is their when men, ruling over men, act not out of love for one another, but in a selfish, rigid, and hegemonic fashion towards their own interests?
Can your democracy love you so much it would bring your very life into being?
Humanism, like Communism, Fascism, Racism, Sexism, and all the other “ism’s” destroy a mans soul because they deny the Grace of God. They fail because they are Godless.
How can place men at a level you image greater than God, when men still bleed?
“Why are you such a spiteful person, Adam”
Well, I suppose you believe that God made me that way… however, I actually take full responsibility for how I am and what I say. As for being spiteful, I don’t think I am. At least not any more so that anyone else, regardless of religion.
“How can you honestly think – let alone deceive yourself into believing – that their is not something greater than humanity and the world that men have created for themselves?”
Well, this comes down to that old chestnut, ‘proof’. I subscribe to a belief system that prefers facts to faith. It’s a choice that any human should be free to make without fear of discrimination or reprisals. As it happens, I do believe there is something greater than humanity. I call it ‘physics’… actually, that’s a bit glib, there may be aliens too.
“Did you ever think that the concept of “Humanism” was only possible *after* the fact that Christianity had lead those teachings of kindness and fellowship?”
You see, whilst I spent some of my life as a Christian, and as such have at least a basic understanding of it as a belief system, you have not forwarded the same courtesy to my beliefs – Being a humanist means that you believe that people are good, and bad, in the absence of religion. I believe humans were being kind to each other and mean to each other since the day they evolved the ability to feel that way. The idea that we suddenly gained a conscience 2000 years ago is, to me, a laughable joke… plus, it doesn’t actually say that in the bible, does it? What about Abraham, Noah and all the other Old Testament characters… they didn’t have Christianity, yet they did some fairly kind acts, at least human ones.
Not only do you display an ignorance of my beliefs, you do it to your own as well.
It sounds like you are suggesting that humans are only capable of good things because of Christianity. What a poor view of humanity you have and, if you ask me, an insulting way to look upon one of your god’s creations… the idea that your creator would create something so imperfect that he’d need to patch them up with hokum religion is saddening.
“God could not, nor would, be qualified, quantified, conceptualized, or “captured” by the very limited and inconsistent language and thought of men”
Handy that, isn’t it. Patronising too… ‘I am so great that you couldn’t possibly understand me’.
“What “consequences” are you referring to,that could possibly be so great, that they would persist if you’re idea of “democracy” [in the U.K.] where to collapse this very instant?”
I like how you have placed the word democracy in inverted commas. This is a pointless question, illogical and loaded – it’s like saying ‘well, if we lived on mars how would you go fishing’… we DO live in a democracy, and one in which I believe should be secular. Christians tend to be very vocal about their rights and their beliefs, and they seem to be quite ignorant of others… such as yourself, and that is why I don’t want god being brought to the ballot box and why I think religious lobby groups should try to practice what they preach and show some tolerance.
“Can your democracy love you so much it would bring your very life into being?”
Who knows, eventually, with a bit more research, maybe it can. But again, besides the point, this is a stupid statement and if that’s the best you can do to put your beliefs across then you are bound to fail. I’m pretty sure god didn’t will you into being. I believe your parents probably had frantic and mostly disappointing sex without contraception, nine months before you were squeezed out of your mother’s vagina…
“Humanism, like Communism, Fascism, Racism, Sexism, and all the other “ism’s” destroy a mans soul because they deny the Grace of God”
OK, I’ve tried to keep calm and reasonable, but seriously, who the fuck do you think you are? You come here, to my site and leave such a hateful comment. Seriously, what gives a coward like you the right to place my beliefs on par with sexism, racism and fascism? The genius of that statement being that all of those things appear to be facets of the Christian church – that and priests fiddling with little boys. Your religion has been loaded with corruption and deceit since it started, it has been used as an excuse for bigotry on levels that a humanist would find hard to believe and it has been used to oppress everything from freedom of thought through to freedom of being.
If you are the product of your god, your god has no grace, just another idiot following him blindly and spouting offensive, ignorant rubbish.
But I’m willing to forgive you, and I urge my readers to do the same. As a humanist, I believe in you, and I believe you can do better. You have the opportunity to make the lives of people better… a fact that both of our beliefs rest upon. So why don’t you go and do something positive rather than spend your time writing this drivel?
Oh man.
I guess that’s the disadvantage of things like StumbleUpon, eh? Some violent characters pop up on your door step. I’m really glad you took the time to answer him in depth, clearly and eloquently. I see a lot of this kind of drivel on the evolutionary science blogs I read (frankly, I’m really kind of surprised he (why do I assume he? I’m not really sure, but I definitely get that vibe, something about the misogyny inherent to fundamentalist Christianity makes it seem like only a dude could be so self-righteously ignorant and aggressive) left evolution out of that little mostly-off-topic rant).
It’s sad, really… I like to think, on my better days, that all people are capable of reasoning, understanding, compassion, regardless of how they were raised, of their current situation. But this sort of godbagery makes me wonder at times.
But it was all worth it for just to see a rare outing for ‘godbagery’.
Hopefully, if evolution is a fact and not just a theory, us humanists will eventually, collectively, grow a decent set of testicles and stand up to this sort of rubbish. These sort of fundamentalists are the first ones to complain that their beliefs are being infringed yet they seem so happy to do it to everyone else.
I’m always happy to talk about it though, and I will add that the majority of Christians are pretty decent people and that maybe it is they that should be denouncing offensive posts like the one you see here.
Exactly! The so-called ‘moderate Christians’ really need to step up and take a look at what the out-spoken fringe members of their religion are doing to public relations. Most of the Christians I know are very nice, decent people, but I only know two who would stand up and denounce this sort of thing (and God-bless those two, eh?). I hear through the grapevine that the political/religious climate over here is changing a bit, and people like the Falwells and Robinsons of the world are losing some sway in the protestant community, the liberal Christians are taking a bit more of an active role.
There’s even speculation that the voting block that is the Religious Right will fall apart with this next election, which would be a very good thing. That group is a weird mix-mash of libertarian conservatives, working-class poor that would, otherwise, be supporting unionization and a certain degree of socialization, and moneyed rich big-gov’t conservatives, only held together by the idea that they’d rather their children died young and went to Heaven than lived a decent life in a ‘godless’ nation, as well as the brain-washing that only money and religion put together can really buy.
‘Godbagery’ is a great word, no? I must admit, however, I lifted it shamelessly from Twisty Faster, over at iblamethipatriarchy.com
Well, credit where it’s due, but the use was spot on.
Your friends are fantastic, please tell them that for me. It’s difficult to speak out against that sort of thing from within, without being burned as a witch or somesuch.
And that’s the thing, these people that leave these comments seem to judge me without actually checking anything out. I have friends of almost every religious denomination, christians, jews, muslims and buddhists. Frequently we are in the same room at the same time, and yet this sort of rubbish never happens…
Bah! sexist! a female can be just as big of as ass as a male!
good job, i would’ve become an articulate mass of indignation that someone would go out of their way to come here and preach to me, in your position
ERRORS IN YOUR POST:
1. Used “their” in place of “there.”
2. Used “you’re” in place of “your.”
3. Used “where” in place of “were”.
4. Used “their” again in place of “there.”
5. Missing possessive apostrophe in “mans;” should be “man’s.”
6. Last sentence is nonsensical, apparently missing a “you” and attempting to use “image” as a verb (probably meant “imagine”).
Clearly your God doesn’t love you if he didn’t take the time to TEACH YOU GRAMMAR!
Put down your Bible (and the Thesaurus you dug some of those big words out of) and go get Hooked on Phonics.
somehow, a world without a god seems so much more beautiful
Hahaha, oh, if anything’s going to bring him back to preach more, it’ll be that one.
But I agree.
Alas, I doubt they’ll be back, you see, rather than try and have a discussion about their views, as always this type of commentor hides behind a fake name and a fake email address… they’ll probably never see my reply, nor will they care, their job is done and they can’t hear anyway.
He better come back and fix his grammar or he’s going to get an Incomplete. He’ll lose his scholarship!
Hahaha. Scholarship. Hehe.
See, this is the part my religious friends can’t wrap their heads around. They seem to think that people who don’t believe in a god can’t appreciate beauty. I’m not even sure how the logic works! Besides, in a universe with a god, doesn’t the beauty and incredibleness of the god overshadow and mute everything by comparison? How amazing is this if it’s just something a god threw together? Isn’t it so much more amazing that it’s an emergence of entirely natural principles?
I agree that in general things are more beautiful when they are short-lived. Alas, they also become pointless.
I’d like to make a few points as an anarcho-libertarian radical conservative faithist. (In order of importance:)
1. I hate it when people hijack God (who I have concrete personal evidence of) and use him for hate. Hate is impossible for God. (It’s like saying Cold was Hot.)
2. Isms are not bound, or found more or less commonly in any climate or geography of the human heart, or of the world. (IE, EVERYONE is an ass.)
3. Adam I take back what I said about your being too nice…. “frantic … disappointing … squeezed …” Ouch, man, ouch.
Anarcho-libertarian radical conservative faithist, huh?
Heard of these guys?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedomites
I hadn’t no, but they’re um… hmm… too naked?
Also I don’t really care about “freedom” so much… more a fan of being allowed to get on with your work and responsibilities.
But if you were going to be an arsonist as a political protest, its best to do it naked. No identifying papers on you, you know?
Maybe a thick coating of paraffin?
“anarcho-libertarian radical conservative faithist” – what a faux pas, I thought you were a “radical anarcho-libertarian faithist conservative”…
*pictures People’s Front of Judea sketch from Life of Brian*
It’s not my proudest moment. I wanted to supply a calm, even handed answer, but that bit made me so angry that I couldn’t help generate the graphic image of the commenters birth.
The thing is, as a humanist, I feel that I have to be reasonable – I mean, I could be wrong, and God could very well exist. I have no proof that he doesn’t, just as much as I do that he does… however, I can’t tolerate it when people refuse to show the same level of humility with my beliefs.
And that’s the thing. I think belief is distinct from religion. Belief is personal faith whislt religion is what leads to people calling each other names.
If there is a god, I’d like them to look at me and go, ‘You know, he didn’t believe in me, but he tried to do the right thing anyway’. And I’d much rather that than ‘Sure he believed in me, but he spread so much hate and intolerance’.
That commenter does a diservice to all decent christians.
Something about throwing stones…
You know, that’s the first time I’ve sworn on my own blog.
No worries about the faux pas, us A-LRCFists get confused with the AL-RCFists and the AL-Sharptonists all the time. Not the same!
As per your main post, I think you’re absolutely correct on all points.
2cents: A humanist should rightly be nothing but reasonable, just as a Christian should always be loving… alas, both sides truly suck at doing what they ought to. : )
“I’m pretty sure god didn’t will you into being. I believe your parents probably had frantic and mostly disappointing sex without contraception, nine months before you were squeezed out of your mother’s vagina…”
Wow. So, what was achieved with that comment? Is this how all the “discipline” and “good nature” of your “Humanist Manifesto” has rewarded you? Is this your “Übermensch” vision for people to follow? That is to say, succumbing to insulting another’s mother. You don’t love your mother enough to know that it would be so ungraceful to say such things, which is why you insult another persons mother with such carelessness.
I ask you, who is the coward now? Who is being so needlessly aggressive and offensive?
Well, Adam, tell your mother I love her for having tried to rear a child that would love her and be kind to others. That’s assuming your mother cared for that much, Adam.
The message of “Humanism” is the mask worn by Neo-Communists waiting on the sidelines for everyone to abandon their faith in God, so that they may break the peoples will to survive and suppress their evil message of a life without hope for something greater beyond this life.
Hitler and Stalin told their people to abandon the teachings of God, and to instead look to their own strength as a people under their flag. Now, what does “Humanism” ask of you?
I told you to find God. Not a church, not a study group, not culture or politics. Find God for yourself, and not as excuse to say you “belong” to any human construct. Civilization fails people when they need it most. With that in mind, why go on living in society? Because God’s Grace can provide man with more than anything men could make for themselves. Peace!
“The English have no exalted sentiments. They can all be bought.” –Napoleon Bonaparte
Hey, you’re back. Great.
“Wow. So, what was achieved with that comment?”
Well, I felt much better after making it… it probably made a few people laugh, as well as being mostly true. I felt the need to defend my beliefs after you waded in with your insults and opinions.
“Is this how all the “discipline” and “good nature” of your “Humanist Manifesto” has rewarded you?”
Humanists don’t have a manifesto, or a book, like the bible. We prefer to think for ourselves. As for insulting mothers, I don’t believe I said anything insulting about your mother… she does have a vagina doesn’t she?
“I ask you, who is the coward now?”
It’s still you, as you are still hiding behind a fake email address and username… It’s still you. If I had visited your site and started slating your religion, then yes I would probably accept the accusation of aggression. As it is, you started this, you insulted my beliefs and as such I think I’m being perfectly reasonable in standing up for them and myself.
“Well, Adam, tell your mother I love her”
My mother reads this comic, and she thinks you’re an idiot too.
“The message of “Humanism”….”
Look, you obviously know nothing about humanism, you’ve demonstrated that in both of your comments. The next time I want an ill-informed and offensive view on something I’ll come looking for you.
“The English have no exalted sentiments…”
Not happy with insulting my beliefs you’ve just started insulting my country too. You’re an ignorant, racist biggot with few redeeming qualities. You talk about peace, yet I doubt you do anything about it. I suspect you spend your life trolling away on the internet thinking that you make a difference instead of really helping people. I do hope your god exists, because I’m pretty sure when we both meet him he’s going to prefer me, someone that has tried to do the right thing regardless, to you, someone who believes and still does no good.
Don’t come back here, you’re not welcome. Mostly because of the racism to be honest, we don’t need that sort of thing and we don’t need you.
“as you are still hiding behind a fake email address and username”
But they can’t hide behind a fake IP address… let me guess, Wichita?
@Adam, try to keep your cool. I can tell they’re getting to you a little.
Actually, you kind of can: http://www.torproject.org
“My mother reads this comic, and she thinks you’re an idiot too.”
NICE.
I love you Adam. This comment was so good at revoking that pitiful prior comment that it beat my hotmail account into submission and gave me back access to email attachments.
Surely you are a GOD?
The Flowfield Unity – It fixes Hotmail…
I like the sound of that… and thanks, but no god am I, nor would I want to be. i have enough trouble running my own life to stress about everyone elses.
…And the hours are terrible, I mean, when did god last get a day off? One Sunday, six thousand or so years ago? I’d be going to the union with that.
I’ll be a monkey’s uncle, he came back.
I don’t think the comment about your mother was intended as an insult to her: all women have vaginas, and all babies get squeezed through one, regardless. (Well, there are C-sections, of course.) I think it is intended to play on the squeamishness of fundamentalists concerning the facts of life (and it did, as evidenced by your assumption that it was an insult). It does amuse me, however, that you pick this one point to respond to, a supposed insult to your mother, lambasting it as ‘ungraceful’ et cetera, and yet reply in kind: “That’s assuming your mother cared for that much, Adam.” Most interesting, no?
But aside from that, what about the other responses to your rant? What about: “Christians tend to be very vocal about their rights and their beliefs, and they seem to be quite ignorant of others… such as yourself, and that is why I don’t want god being brought to the ballot box and why I think religious lobby groups should try to practice what they preach and show some tolerance.”
Or: “What a poor view of humanity you have and, if you ask me, an insulting way to look upon one of your god’s creations… the idea that your creator would create something so imperfect that he’d need to patch them up with hokum religion is saddening.”
And please, Hitler? Stalin? Humanism doesn’t ask anything of anybody. What does (and here I’ll use inverted commas as you do) “Christianity” ask of you? The fact is, what the religion has asked of its followers has changed over the years, that the Bible is read selectively. If you took all of it literally, we’d still be stoning women in the streets, and not eating pork. I believe there’s even a verse by Paul stating that it is immoral for a man to wear his hair long.
I think you’re missing the point of all of this. The point is not that we’re all godless atheistic heathens, or even that some Christians are outspoken ignorant bigots. The point is that people are people regardless of religion, god, all that.
I will agree with you on one point. You said “I told you to find God. Not a church, not a study group, not culture or politics. Find God for yourself, and not as excuse to say you “belong” to any human construct.” I think that’s valid, but what you can’t see is that religion is a human construct, that Christianity and the Bible are built by human hands, human minds. God is a human construct: god is inside you, inside everyone. God is what a person makes her, if you want your god to be petty, cruel, and bigotous, so be it, I can’t stop you: that god is a reflection of your own self, just like everyone else’s. But that’s not my god, nor Adam’s god I think, and nothing you say can make it so.
Until your reflection is a little less tarnished, I’d think you should stick to introspection. Let’s not cast that first stone, eh?
CORRECTIONS:
1. “persons” Lacking possessive apostrophe.
2. “mother cared for that much” Missing word, should be “mother cared for you that much.”
3. “peoples” Again lacking possessive apostrophe.
4. “not as excuse” Missing word, should be “not as an excuse.”
Your grammar has improved, fella! However I’m afraid I must deduct 25 points for invoking Hitler (again proving Godwin’s Law) and 25 more points for clearly being a crazy person. I mean, that part about “Neo-Communists waiting on the sidelines for everyone to abandon their faith in God?” NUTTY! You should seek professional help.
42 out of a possible 100. YOU GET AN F! Keep it up and you’ll be put on academic probation!
I was going to correct Adam’s spelling of “redeeming” but he fixed it… hmm… REVISIONISTS! ¬_¬
“I ask you, who is the coward now? Who is being so needlessly aggressive and offensive?”
in my experience, monotheism is based primarily on a few assumptions, the first of which is that there is a all-powerful being , the second that said omnipotent and omnipresent being likes you, and the third being that this being will smite the shit out of whomever your particular enemies are.
as comforting an ideology as this doesn’t seem to take a lot of bravery to believe in. now, I’d be willing to acknowledge the courage of the daring, rebels who are willing to hold onto their beliefs in a world filled with fascists walking the halls of power, and lurking in every shadow. However, it remains that Christianity is one of the most widely held religions in the world, and anyone displaying less than complete faith in the christian god has virtually no chance of getting elected to public office
hi guys
Hi!
*surly nod*
If it’s any consolation, we participate in cultural trade on the reverse end. We’re infused with Japanese tidbits that goes beyond anime, and our language itself is different from yours because we contain a lot of foreign words that have worked their way in. Some even come from my people’d native tongue – you know: the original Americans. :-p
And if I put an ’s’ in my written words (which I tend to do and used to do often when I was younger for whatever reason) I get told to put a ‘z’ because I’ve mispelled the word. =^-^= So I guess that depends on which side of the Big Water you’re on.
That’s true… I mean as far as British culture is concerned we have a lot to owe the native Americans too. Without the concept and name of the mohican haircut punk might never have happened, and even if it did, it would be far less stylish.
We have culture? Hell, I thought we consumed everyone else’s culture and regurgitated it in our own way.
That’s not culture…that’s a mess.
“That’s not culture…that’s a mess.”
That should be used as a logo for all overseas forces, both British and US.
And I find it sad that we in the USA have to miss out on some of the overseas things, like your special candy bar versions, for one.
(And healthcare.)
“Y’all” are alright.
The candybars are good… the healthcare, not so much.
I know Michael Moore made a big deal about the NHS in the UK in Sicko… but he took a very naive and simplistic view. Just because the service is free at the point of entry, doesn’t mean that it’s any good.
Personally, I had to wait for nearly a year to be seen by a consultant whilst I lost my hearing. It was very distressing, mostly because of the lack of support and information. The truth is that we do pay for it too, through considerably higher taxes and national insurance. I worked out that if I was given the money back I would have been able to find a private consultant and would have been seen within a few days.
And I won’t start on dentistry… actually I will, since I believe it is a very important part of healthcare… the problem here is that there are way too few dental surgeries for the population. I know many people who can’t register with one, like me. This means if anything happens I have to travel a considerable distance to an emergency dental practise where they are only required to patch you up – usually just by pulling teeth – it’s like the dark ages.
Perhaps if I were to lay off the candy…
““Y’all” are alright” – true, except for Ben, he’s a lose cannon.
And thanks for commenting, Laurelle.
I’m not lose, I’m tightly wound and about to go off at any passing target.
Hey, a cloud
*BOOM*
Interesting conversation for certain. Thank you for the dark side of NHS. My niece is a missionary doctor in Bangladesh who truly believes NHS would be the best thing EVER in the States. I like all the choices in care available here. Apparently, I am one of the insured ones, but my deductible is high enough that we pay for most of our doctor visits anyway. My daughter was an uninsured pregnant one, who was quite well taken care of by the Medicaid program even when her pregnancy had complications and she is married to a husband who was working full-time but not yet covered by group insurance at the time. There are many good things that can be said about our ever more expensive health care system.
There are many things to be proud of as an American. We definitely are one of the first in line to send aid and have many organizations devoted to helping the less fortunate. Even the fact that McD’s and KFC are known around the globe is just an example of American business acumen. (Do I hear a tinge of jealousy?)
Thanks to the Canadian and the Australian for their fine points of view on the effects of American culturalization. My memories of greats include many artists from your countries. It seems many of the truly funny comedians are (were) Canadians! Musicians? Name someone born in the US (not Elvis –eww!) that compares to the Beatles, Stones, Who, Neil Young, ABBA.
The only reason we seem less affected by other world cultures is because our news media doesn’t know there are other countries in the world, unless there is a tidal wave, earthquake, famine, bombing; or an Olympics.
Elaine
The only thing I’m proud of (that may have been exported from America: Maybe not), is freedom. The idea that all people should be free.
If people excercise that freedom by going to McDonalds, visiting internet porn, or serving their communities; that should be their choice.
Here’s the short version: I’m ashamed of what many Americans have done with our freedom, but I wouldn’t dare wish freedom to be taken away. As someone mentioned above; America is headed full-speed ahead into socialism right now. If it keeps up, I’m moving to Texas or Montana.
It’s tricky though, and I’m sure the philosophers amongst us will be able to put this across far better but:
By going to McDonalds you might be excersising your freedoms but you impinging upon the freedoms of others… By supporting this company you are supporting their treatment of the low paid workers who are not allowed to form unions, the meat industry workers who are similarly low paid for a rather dangerous job and the use of land that borders on being destructive.
Similarly, visiting internet porn… you are supporting, most likely, the abuse of women and sex traffiking.
I can’t think of a way in which serving your community (unless that includes gunning down another community) impinges upon anyone’s freedom however.
I think if the US (and indeed the UK) were to steer away from the socialist policies, a lot of people would have their freedom stripped from them, not by their own actions but by the greed of the minority.